FAQ After Exam Questions about work experience

[JessicaWei]

Hi guys,
I have one question regarding the work experience, should we must have exprience in risk management industry? I used to worked in an investment bank, in its investment banking division, and currently I am working in a listed company, in its investor relations department. Just wondering is my experience relevant to take the FRM certificate if I have passed the exam? I think I can get the CFA certificate based on my experience, but not sure about FRM. Could someone pls answer?
Thanks a lot!

Best,
Jessica

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi Jessica,

I am 98% confident your work experience will qualify. I was just chatting with Suzanne Evans , who has given qualification assistance to many of our customers (and some non-customers) and she's witnessed no (zero!) titles-based rejection; this suggests that GARP is "tolerant" and I think GARP is more concerned with seeing actual work experience (I do understand they occasionally "spot check" the stated experience) but, if you have experience in financial services, I think they are quite understanding that there are many "related fields."

Here is GARP's page http://www.garp.org/frm/exam-overview/certification-requirements/qualifying-job-titles.aspx

If you still aren't confident, let us know and Suzanne might be able to give you additional confidence.

Thanks,

 

[riskaverse]

@David Harper CFA FRM CIPM


Hi David,

I worked in an actuarial/pensions consultancy for about 2 years 10 months. My job title was "Actuarial Manager". Due to some reasons I left the job in April 2014 and am taking a "gap year". I hope to appear for FRM part 1 in November 2014 and FRM part 2 in May 2015. Assuming that I pass FRM exams by May 2015 (fingers crossed!), I will then send in my application for work experience.

I know that Actuarial analyst etc. appear in the list of approved titles. My question is that will my job experience count, although my work experience was prior to sitting for the FRM exams? And do you think it will count, because my work was totally based on advising pension funds and not insurance?

Waiting for your reply. Thanks.

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

HI @Boxbro I realize your question has two factors (gap and duties/title) but I personally have no doubt your work experience will qualify. It's over two years at a clearly relevant title. I'd offer for us to check with our GARP contact (and if you really really want us to, we can ask ....) but your situation is not even borderline, in my opinion. I hope that helps, good luck!

 

[riskaverse]

David thank you very much for your reply. I joined your forum 3 days you back and I've already realized that you guys are a very friendly and helpful lot.

Your reply is very encouraging. But would it be asking to much if you can check with your GARP contact about my particular issue (more worried about the "gap")?

I will be very grateful. I will buy your subscription package, I promise

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi @Boxbro

LOL, thanks but you don't need to buy for us to inquire (we are naturally motivated to support the FRM community, it is already in our self interest!). Sure we will query our contact (Kristina) but, as Nicole is out until of the office until Monday, is it okay if we do that next week (so Nicole can support me in the follow-up, also we might learn something new about the "gap" issue that we can add to our support database)?

cc: @Nicole Manley

 

[Nicole Seaman]

@Boxbro,

This is the response that I received from our contact at GARP this morning regarding work experience:

"Thank you for your email. Please have any candidates that are inquiring about their work experience email: [email protected], They will be happy to answer their questions."

Although he didn't answer any specifics regarding your work experience, I am sure that they will give you the detailed information that you need when you contact them.

Thanks!

Nicole

 

[emilioalzamora1]

Hi All,

GARP does not provide us with a clear list which sort of roles count towards the 2-year work experience.

Can you please share your thoughts/experiences and tell for example what "lower level" roles (e.g. Back Office) will not count as work experience to gain the charter? Are there any particular "key words" which must be in the job description in order to be taken into account by GARP?

Hereafter I have posted three excerpts of job descriptions I have encountered on the web, but I am not sure whether these roles qualify for the 2-year work experience (all of the roles are with very big US asset managers):

1. "XYZ is primarily responsible for the creation of investment proposals for clients/ new business. The Associate provides support to the Portfolio Evaluation Analysts in gathering necessary information for the review and analysis of investment suitability".

2. "Trade modelling and trade execution for all corporate bond portfolios including investing new money and monitoring and managing daily cash flows. Daily monitoring of portfolios to ensure mandates remain in compliance with detailed guidelines.Maintain relationships with corporate bond dealers, keeping portfolio manager on top of daily news, placing orders in the primary new issue market, including having a view on the bond spread, and the execution of orders in secondary markets."

3. "Attend fund manager meetings / conduct fund manager interviews. Follow investment company announcements. Perform quantitative and qualitative analysis. Produce written notes and reports for internal and external distribution."

 

[ami44]

Of course I can only speculate, but my impression is, that GARP is pretty liberal when it comes to accepting work experience. My feeling is, that everything that is a little bit quantitative and has connection to finance is accepted. So my guess is that all three descriptions are fine.

I would try to work the word "risk" in for obvious reasons, but that should be easy. Almost every job in the finance industry has a risk aspect, I think.

I might be wrong of course.

 

[emilioalzamora1]

many thanks for the first reply. This sounds pretty straightforward then.

Do full-time traineeships (either with an Asset Manager or with a Big 4 in Risk) count as work experience as well?

 

[ashish_pandey]

@David Harper CFA FRM CIPM
@Suzanne Evans
Hi David/Suzanne,
Reg: Whether my previous experience qualifies for FRM or not?

I recently cleared FRM part 1 and wanted your help on the above subject line. I have a total of 6 years of work experience into Banking and Financial services. I have been specifically working into Pension and Insurance segment all these years. I have 3.5 years of experience into Life insurance Underwriting with portfolios covered include Asset Mortgage credit life products, Individual life products and Pension annuity product underwriting. My daily job includes doing Financial underwriting, working on AML (Anti money laundering checks), KYC checks to assess the risk profile of the customers/Companies and basis that to decide whether someone qualifies for the sumassured or not. Other than the above primary role I also have experience into Operations Audit for the Insurance firm. Though Underwriting is a Risk management profile but still i am confused whether the same qualifies for GARP or not. My rest 2.5 years of experience has been primarily into Business analytics and Reasearch for an Investment firm supporting the operations team (supporting customer queries) with data analytics and modelling. At the broad level this role includes Business Forecasting using tools like SAS, R and ARIMA & Regression techniques+Machine learning.

It would be a great help if you can please advise me as in whether my role qualifies for the GARP Approved work experience or not.

Regards
Ashish Pandey

 

[Nicole Seaman]

@David Harper CFA FRM CIPM
@Suzanne Evans
Hi David/Suzanne,
Reg: Whether my previous experience qualifies for FRM or not?

I recently cleared FRM part 1 and wanted your help on the above subject line. I have a total of 6 years of work experience into Banking and Financial services. I have been specifically working into Pension and Insurance segment all these years. I have 3.5 years of experience into Life insurance Underwriting with portfolios covered include Asset Mortgage credit life products, Individual life products and Pension annuity product underwriting. My daily job includes doing Financial underwriting, working on AML (Anti money laundering checks), KYC checks to assess the risk profile of the customers/Companies and basis that to decide whether someone qualifies for the sumassured or not. Other than the above primary role I also have experience into Operations Audit for the Insurance firm. Though Underwriting is a Risk management profile but still i am confused whether the same qualifies for GARP or not. My rest 2.5 years of experience has been primarily into Business analytics and Reasearch for an Investment firm supporting the operations team (supporting customer queries) with data analytics and modelling. At the broad level this role includes Business Forecasting using tools like SAS, R and ARIMA & Regression techniques+Machine learning.

It would be a great help if you can please advise me as in whether my role qualifies for the GARP Approved work experience or not.

Regards
Ashish Pandey

Hello @ashish_pandey

I forwarded your question to GARP, and they responded that this would qualify for the approved work experience. I hope this helps!

Nicole

 

[Nicole Seaman]

Hi All,

GARP does not provide us with a clear list which sort of roles count towards the 2-year work experience.

Can you please share your thoughts/experiences and tell for example what "lower level" roles (e.g. Back Office) will not count as work experience to gain the charter? Are there any particular "key words" which must be in the job description in order to be taken into account by GARP?

Hereafter I have posted three excerpts of job descriptions I have encountered on the web, but I am not sure whether these roles qualify for the 2-year work experience (all of the roles are with very big US asset managers):

1. "XYZ is primarily responsible for the creation of investment proposals for clients/ new business. The Associate provides support to the Portfolio Evaluation Analysts in gathering necessary information for the review and analysis of investment suitability".

2. "Trade modelling and trade execution for all corporate bond portfolios including investing new money and monitoring and managing daily cash flows. Daily monitoring of portfolios to ensure mandates remain in compliance with detailed guidelines.Maintain relationships with corporate bond dealers, keeping portfolio manager on top of daily news, placing orders in the primary new issue market, including having a view on the bond spread, and the execution of orders in secondary markets."

3. "Attend fund manager meetings / conduct fund manager interviews. Follow investment company announcements. Perform quantitative and qualitative analysis. Produce written notes and reports for internal and external distribution."

Hello @emilioalzamora1

I forwarded your questions to GARP, and they responded with the following answers:

• What "lower level" roles (e.g. Back Office) will not count as work experience to gain the charter? Typically we look for an AVP and above from a back office perspective. It really depends on what and how long they have been doing the job.
  
  
• Are there any particular "key words" which must be in the job description in order to be taken into account by GARP? The more details the job description the better.

• Do the following roles qualify for the 2-year work experience:
  
  a. XYZ is primarily responsible for the creation of investment proposals for clients/ new business. The Associate provides support to the Portfolio Evaluation Analysts in gathering necessary information for the review and analysis of investment suitability. This would not, as we do not see any specific risk management experience. Here we would ask for more details.
  
  b. Trade modelling and trade execution for all corporate bond portfolios including investing new money and monitoring and managing daily cash flows. Daily monitoring of portfolios to ensure mandates remain in compliance with detailed guidelines.Maintain relationships with corporate bond dealers, keeping portfolio manager on top of daily news, placing orders in the primary new issue market, including having a view on the bond spread, and the execution of orders in secondary markets. This is a good representation of someone that would be approved.
  
  c. Attend fund manager meetings / conduct fund manager interviews. Follow investment company announcements. Perform quantitative and qualitative analysis. Produce written notes and reports for internal and external distribution. This would not qualify. We would need more details.
  

I hope this is helpful!

Nicole

 

[Nicole Seaman]

many thanks for the first reply. This sounds pretty straightforward then.

Do full-time traineeships (either with an Asset Manager or with a Big 4 in Risk) count as work experience as well?

@emilioalzamora1

I also forwarded this question to GARP, and they responded with this statment, "Typically this experience would not qualify, as you are a “trainee”, but we would ask to see the job description."

 

[dwheats]

How long does it usually take to get back once work experience has been submitted? I submitted the day the results came out.

Also, experience is 10 months as a retail auto loan underwriter and 19 months as a commercial banker. I also work with treasury including establishing derivatives trading, securitization and risk management.

My concern is over the 10 months of retail auto loan underwriting and whether that will qualify.

Thoughts?

Thanks, All.

 

[Mkaim]

How long does it usually take to get back once work experience has been submitted? I submitted the day the results came out.

Also, experience is 10 months as a retail auto loan underwriter and 19 months as a commercial banker. I also work with treasury including establishing derivatives trading, securitization and risk management.

My concern is over the 10 months of retail auto loan underwriting and whether that will qualify.

Thoughts?

Thanks, All.

@dwheats - underwriting retail auto loans means you were dealing with credit risk - that's pure risk and has to qualify (remember credit metrics and scoring models?)

 

[Deepak Chitnis]

Hi @David Harper CFA FRM and @Nicole Manley, I have some queries regarding work experience, for example I was working while my graduation and weekly work hours are 42 hours, and work is related to investment consultancy, it is paid (I was doing college for 7AM to 10AM and then working) and it is almost for 2 years as per my understanding it should be qualified as valid work experience. Why it is not consider as valid work experience? Can you help me.
Thank you !

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi @Deepak Chitnis I would (certainly) expect that to be qualifying (geez, impressive!). Do I understand correctly: was this experience rejected by GARP? or are you merely asking ...

 

[Deepak Chitnis]

Hi @David Harper CFA FRM Thank you for getting back on this question! Now as I am heading for part 2 in November 16, I am thinking about work experience a lot! I asked GARP about it and I got reply that "generally part time experience does not qualify, you should have atleast 40 weekly work hours and it should be paid, internship are also not qualified." I have fulfilled last 2, but didn't understand the phrase generally part time experience does not qualify. Does that means in some cases it will be qualified or not at all? Just little confused.
Thank you!

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi @Deepak Chitnis okay I understand, I see, thank you! My (mere) assumption is that you will qualify because it's 40 hours per week and paid, which trumps the part-time qualifier which is meant to exclude certain activities (e.g., working a few hours per week). You are a valued member, I'd be happy to float this by our contact to see if we can get some more concrete feedback ....