CFA Exam in June then FRM (only 5 months for FULL FRM exam)?

[faizan]

Hi I am a CFA level 2 candidate in Canada who is a graduate of a top 5 business school in canada for undergrad in acccounting/finance.

I am planning on starting frm after my level 2 cfa on june 6th leaving me roughly 5 months to study for the FULL FRM EXAM while working full-time in underwriting, risk management, etc.

I was able to pass cfa level 1 on about 6 weeks of study time and am cramming for cfa level 2 as well;

can you provide any insight on if i am leaving sufficient time of 5 months of study time? I know the full FRM exam seems like alot of material and i don't have a quant background only undergrad in accounting/finance which is very different from the FRM exam topics.

that's about 20 weeks and i can easily commit 15-20 hrs/week so i am hoping to hit 300-400 hours easily of focused study time.

also i am going to purchase bionic turtle and use schweser program as well for my core study materials.

please let me know and thanks and looking forward to watching the bionic turtle videos and i will be signing up for it in the next few weeks.

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi faizan,

Given your background (e.g., you passed CFA level I with only 6 weeks!?), that plan probably should work but is still ambitious. Because 15-20 hrs/week over 20 weeks, if you are discipined about this, should prepare you and probably even well prepare you (I think the challenge is to follow through on this ambition of this sort, that's the hard part when you are working, to carve out that much time IMO).

You sound like a good student which, of course, works in your favor. But...
you wrote "I don’t have a quant background only undergrad in accounting/finance which is very different from the FRM exam topics."
This is very true, the CFA background only helps to a limited degree; IMO, a better background for FRM is a math undergrad degree.

Comfort/capability with quant methods is a key determinant in the amount of time required. I think Fabian's comment is instructive: a quant can read without struggle. But a non-quant will not be able to read without struggle.

In summary:
* if you are a good student with CFA background, 300 to 400 hours should generally be enough. Last year, I would have said: that is fine, no worries, you will be in great shape. This year, with 30+ readings and a significantly expanded exam, I say: probably that can work (because you have a relevant background) but it look still ambitious
* The key variable is your comfort with quantitative methods; e.g., can you read Gujarati without struggle, how about Kevin Dowd. If comfortable with both, your plan is fine. If struggle, then plan is ambitious.

I get a lot of questions along the lines of, "is xxx hours enough to prepare?." There is not a single answer for everybody. But I believe the first determinant in regards to time required is comfort/capabiltiy with quantitative methods. A good test of this is to simply browse a few chapters from the assigned Gujarati, Jorion or Kevin Dowd (for more advanced; if you are comfortable with Dowd, you will generally not struggle with any of the readings) and see if you can read without undue struggle.

Hope this helps, David

 

[faizan]

thank you for the candid feedback david,

i agree with your assessment. As of now having the quick turnaround time between graduating undergrad in dec. 08 and cfa level 1 in dec. 08 then cfa level 2 in june 09; it doesn't give me the time to plan ahead for the FRM. the expansion of topics and into 2 levels doesn't help my condensed study time but my primary focus is to pass the exam and expand my risk knowledge as well so i feel i can learn alot by this new program.

do you have any primers or tutorials/intro material included in the $399 package for non-quant background people like myself whom are mainstream commerce graduate in finance/accounting where the focus is non-calculus nor heavy math.

my ultimate goal is to get into more of the CFA profile, i am doing FRM since my last 2 job roles were in risk and i enjoyed them and feel its a good designation to pursue in the turmoil of the job market but cfa is still my top priority.

i can definitely follow through on the plan of studying heavy hours as i am early 20's with no wife, girlfriend, kids, marriage, and although my job can be 50-60 hours a week i have no significant commitments besides that come june 7th and my cfa level 2 is complete;

i am putting my US CPA/CA on hold for now to do the frm so i should be okay.

hope this week to see more details from you about your products, study schedules, etc and i will be purchasing bionic turtle once i have signed up for the FRM before their early discount of $550 USD ends.

thanks again

faizan

 

[danlieb]

David:

I am also considering taking the FRM Full in Novemebr following the L2 CFA exam in June. I have a pretty solid academic background (BA Math, MS Operations Research, PHD Business Administration) and 5 years work experience (not directly in Financial Risk). Looking at the topics, the L1 FRM seems like a slam dunk but the full will require work. What are your thoughts? Are you advising people to take the full?
Thank you,
Daniel

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi Daniel,

With that academic background (although I'd never call the exam a slam dunk for anybody), I agree with the essence of your characterization: L1 will require your time investment at the lower end of a range (150 hours is GARP's lower end, and probably a max for you).

Are you advising people to take the full?
No, I find no basis for advising full versus two-step, as Full exam = L1 + L2. I've said it is largely a logistics issue/decision: if you know you are going through with it, given Nov 2009 is the last chance to take the exam in a single sitting, and if can you realisitically carve out the time, this approach makes sense. But, on the other hand, if given your style (e.g., do you tend to procrastinate?) and other work-life committments, perhaps divide-and-conquer makes sense?

I will note, additionally, now that GARP has released a bit more information:

* GARP seems to want to bias in favor of the full exam via the fee schedule, for whatever reason (note full fees $700 versus level I fees @ $775. It initially confused me that Full fees < Level I but I suppose GARP wants to bias in favor of full....)

* Full exam: 5 hours / 140 questions = 2.14 minutes/question. Two levels (approximately): 8 hours / 180 questions = 2.67 mintues per question. Look at this how you will; i.e., it appears the two levels will afford more time/question

I hope that helps.

David